All your arguing is moot if E-C leaves this permanently incomplete.*

*Approaching 2ND ANNIVERSARY of this chapter (with no new one in sight)!

Dear Guest: in the immortal words of Friedrich Nietzsche...

"He who fights with monsters should take lest he become a monster."

That's why Batman doesn't go the Punisher route.

the most good through the least harm and if that's not good enough maybe you should think about your own morality

is not that Batman won't kill him or let him die that fits with Bats issues perfectly it is the fact that no one else has simply shot him or let him die.

I mean in a town with a police force so corrupt you can't throw a stick without hitting a corrupt cop you'd think sooner or later the joker would be shot trying to escape. Or a doctor trying to save his life after the latest near death experience would slip up and sever an artery and just not manage to stop the bleeding.

That's also true. It's really not just Batman's fault- yea, he should let Joker die, but why does everyone else only kill him/try to let him die when Batman is around?

And heck with corrupt cop. Straight cop, shoots Joker, resigns and turns himself in. "This broke the law so I clearly cannot continue as a police officer, but I felt I had to do so."

you could fan wank it as Batman watches over the joker like a hawk when he's out of Arkham (on trail, in the hospital being transported by police) and intervenes every time so folks have decided it just isn't worth going to prison for trying to kill him.

But that would still be a stupid plot line to use to keep him alive because A. Batman can't watch him all the time and B. some folks would still manage to kill him before Batman could stop them if they put some effort into it and given how many grave yards he's filled there should be plenty of victim's family members lined up to do it.

And C. If Batman's watching him, Batman should be trying to capture him.

Joker's big threat is in part his ability to slip the leash, too.

Basically it's pushing the no-kill thing and Joker immunity to the point it hurts other parts of both characters.

What makes you think people haven't tried? Do you really think it's beyond the Joker to kill a couple of smucks?

I'm sure they have but writers keep portraying the joker far beyond his captablilites until it is time for batman to stop him. Sure he could survive a few attempts but sooner or later someone would get him. Someone that dangerous would be put down. Innocent folks in the real world get killed by cops who get away with it. If the joker were real someone would have killed him by his second or third escape.

Also they don't have to be better than the joker to put a bullet through his head from a distance. Hell cops could fill him full of bullets and claim he was reaching for something and given his track record no jury would ever convict them.

The same thing could be said about Batman. Some criminal would have put a bullet in him by his second or third outing.

Well Batman at least has the advantage of having enough gadgets and body armor, in addition to constantly hiding in the shadows, that it would be difficult to hurt him. So out of all of the comicbook vigilantes he's one of the few I could see working IRL.

Indeed, good luck finding a jury in Gotham who would convict the person who killed the Joker, even if the Police found the person feeding the Joker into a wood chipper...They'd ask the judge if some sort of civic award could be given, perhaps a small parade...

Thing is, Joker is such a murderous loose canon, the Mafia would've stepped in and taken him out. They've snuffed people for far less. Unless DC wants to portray Joker as so mystically good at avoiding death that even the pros can't get him. Which is just silly, even by comics standards.

At that point, the local mob could've lined Joker against the wall of GCPD central and shot him, and ONLY Batman would have cared.

My understanding is that two in-universe reasons have been given.

One, that the people of Gotham are so terrified of Joker, they won't even try to off him, out of fear of what will happen if they miss and he comes after them.

Two, knowing that people come back from the dead on a not irregular basis, Batman has the fear that if he was killed, he'd eventually come back, possibly as something even worse (like as a demon)

Thou shall not kill the Joker it doesn't make Batman flawed or human, it makes him actively monstrous in that he actively puts his own codependency above the lives of numerous other people. It's got the sensibility of a bongwater soaked college sophomore thinking that he's come around to a profound and "adult" take on Batman

So happy to read another chapter! I'm glad but also worried Selina returning. I love seeing Bruce with her and Helen. I LOVED their Skype conversation.

So multiple things are heating up.

Jandt does not look long for this world.

And it looks like the war that Dick was trying so hard to prevent is going to happen anyway.

Hey! Welcome back! I thought you were gonna take a Carycomic-style sabbatical. there, for a while. But, you're back; you made up for lost time; and that's what counts. Just like you can count on a Mafiosi deciding which promises have a higher priority, for keeping, than others. It's old gangsters like him that turn "honor" into a four-letter word.

Oh no, damn it Bressi! You do not kill a cop, you know that. Even not counting the Bats Gordon would go after you, just what the hell do you think Sawyer is going to do?

It was a mistake, the guy is already beating himself up over it, shoot him with your own through and through or something dude, don't kill him!

Man Jandt is just digging himself deeper and deeper isn't he?

Great just when I thought that Bressi will keep his hands less dirty and help the Batfamioy stop the Mob War this happens.

Yep, the Batman family will not like this one bit.

Great job bringing back Selina and Helena into the fold of this tale. It's going to be an interesting welcome back.

All this and a political scandal this close to Bruce's police training academy. The twist just keep on coming.

Great update and do keep up the great work on this tale.

Something tells me before this story is over that there is going to be another war, but whether it's the mob or another Supervillain overhaul is up for debate. One thing for sure is that Bruce may get another chance at leading the police into battle, but this time maybe things will be different.

Again threat of torture and torture don't usually work panic and fear lead to waste of time chasing false leads

Just finshed reading this upto date. I got say this an epic story and I can't wait for the next installment

Great to see Clara and Cadet Norton pulling through their ordeals. Still Clara is wounded and her energy is fading her. However, for one so young, she sure is fast.

Nice update and once again this very strange moment for Bruce to endure. Especially during that moment when Bruno went to Thank Bruce for his help.

Dick's idea to oversee Clara is a great one, but I was hoping Cass would play guardian angel too given their early interactions with each other.

However, the idea of having Helena oversee her was a great one and a symbolic one given they both loss loved ones due to their mobster ties. It's best if the Batman family oversees her and tries to place her as a potential ally in the future.

Also Dick, and somewhat Bruce, could understand Clara's position as an orphan being raised by others after suffering a tragic loss.

Great update and great cliffhanger as it makes me wonder where the guns are now ?

Please do keep up the good work on such a terrific storyline. As I can't wait to read what happens next. :)

Great to have you back and great update to boot. Clara finally found and by the Cadets too. Still the thought of her being shot, harm and nearly out of energy must drain her body and caused her to blackout at the end of this chapter.

Here's hoping Clara's alive and that Cadet Norton is okay. What an unexpected turn of events with the explosion.

Plus very surreal of Bruce and Dick to be involved in this together. Once again great update as it seems that despite the circumstances you provoke a real danger that most police face everyday...when it comes to shooting unarmed minors and reacting to it after the deed is done.

Keep up the good work upon such a truly great and engaging tale.

just once I'd like to see I'll bring this one person who wronged me to justice/revenge then have a normal life just once