I've enjoyed this exchange greatly. Perfect scenario; Carson and Barrow trapped in the wine cellar together so they're forced to have a thoughtful discussion. The choice of topics was perfect and I enjoyed the flow of the conversation and soaking in their respective feelings on the matters touched upon.

I liked that Barrow was sympathetic towards Carson's being chilled and had the idea of sitting back to back. I also liked that Carson was kind and finally told Barrow that he thought well of his abilities as a footman, valet, and butler.

There was one silly thought that popped into my mind, however... please forgive me! ;) I couldn't help but wonder how they'd each drunk a bottle of wine and had no need of a toilet. Steel bladders?

That was really just a joke, by the way. ;) I'm not actually nitpicking. I'm aware such concerns would only hamper the story. I just had to mention it because it made me smile when I was reading.

I'd like to say again that I feel you're a very talented writer, especially where the characters are concerned. It takes a special talent to be able to write well even the characters you aren't personally fond of. I'm impressed, as I think you do a great job with Thomas.

I look forward to reading more of you work.

Oh, I love this! *offers virtual cookies*

A character examining conversation between Thomas and Carson that does them both justice! I've just started poking through this fandom and hadn't had much luck so far. Many writers seem to struggle with not making Carson a monster or forgetting how vicious Thomas can be when they make them have a talk with any depth!

Your capturing of Carson is beautiful here. He is all about duty and was managing a large staff who lived and worked with each other and Thomas often rocked the boat. Yet his thoughts about Mrs Carson are so, dare I say it, sweet! And Thomas is there in all his spiky glory, a good man when he let's himself be! Also someone who has come through a lot of hardship, become skilled at his job and has learned how to manage people, partly by watching Carson do it for so long.

This is a great story, full stop.

Great!

One more thing...Carson's declaration to Thomas: the heart does not stop feeling because the body ages.
On behalf of those of us with "snow on the rooftop"-thank you!

I truly enjoy your storiesthank you for sharing!

Well, this was a delight! I loved all the little details - how Carson is worried about what Elsie will think, and Barrow explaining about France. I loved how they really talked about the big things; foremost being Carson's treatment of Barrow while the older man was Butler. That was handled really well, and I liked how Carson did compliment him before leaving. He wasn't effusive in his praise (of course not) but he did give Barrow credit where credit was due.
You write Carson so well, and it was wonderful to see him toe-to-toe with Barrow. I'm going to re-read this many times over. Like everything you write, it's a gem. Cheers!

You're back, Edward! Again, a super post-WWI history lesson. Makes me wonder ..what are historians going to say about 2017 USA a century from now?
That quote from King James could have come from the American Cancer Society today. My!
Both butlers locked in the cellar-drawing from the history of their characters, these are the conversations you might expect. Carson about the French-yikes-
Great point about Carson recommending Barrow- sure, he had something to gain from the arrangement, but Carson would not have done so, had Barrow not been qualified.

There's lots of goodies in this package. Exploit the long -held tension between these two different men. One older, the other still youngish: one the long-serving, former Butler of Downton Abbey, the other his replacement: one, upright and honourable, the other, lying , devious and betraying when it suited him: one, vehemently heterosexual and happily married, the other, homosexual, and bitterly alone and lonely.
The stratagem of Alan, the new, incompetent Hallboy, locking them in the wine cellar, was perfect. Unable to get away from each other, they had to converse. And Thomas was caring of the older man, getting him crates to sit upon, wine to drink, and sharing his back with him to help keep him warm.
Their conversation ranged widely; from fathers, smoking,Thomas ' war wound, his war experience, especially as a homosexual, the Treaty, reading habits, their opinions of each other, getting married and not being able to have a partner. They revealed their differing standards about their behaviour, but were quite tolerant and even accepting of the other's point if view. This was the conversation they needed to have. It was to both men's credit that they were so civilised about it. It showed a Thomas pressing that he had changed from his former sneaky self, and a Carson acknowledging that, and, at last prepared to give him credit where it was due; a generosity of spirit that Thomas was desperate from Carson, though he didn't quite put it as strongly as that.
I like how you ranged their conversation. It reminded me of how my two friends and I talk as we go on our thrice weekly morning walks, talking about personal and political and any other concerns as we go. I like how the two got back to the topic of fathers. I think there's another talk about that still to come from them.
And Elsie really rescued them, organising the right actions when she could.
A masterfully crafted vignette A pleasing dialectic with just the right amount of tension needed from these two men. But they are drawing a bit closer in understanding as you write them. Well done. I really enjoyed this.

That was so sweet. And Charles's little statement of Thomas being a good,qualified and capable butler made me tear up a bit. So so sweet.

what a fun idea, trapping these two in the wine cellar. i have to confess that i was hoping that whoever found them in the end would find them drunk and singing racy pub songs, but hey we can't have everything (although, now that i know you take requests...)

- the situation is perfectly set up. no family so the servants are away. carson can hardly condemn barrow for that.
- the joke about King James stopping by for a visit when Carson was in school, I LOL'd for real.
- finding things to talk about and each time thinking that maybe silence would have been preferable.
- the topics aren't light. the war, homosexuality, love.
- the best part was Carson being able to explain clearly that Thomas came to Downton with the same clean slate as all the other boys and men he hired, that his orientation had nothing to do with the problems that existed between them over the years, that it actually was the stealing, lying and scheming. and that despite all his insistence that he was trying to change and that he was undermined because no one would give him a chance, Carson pointed out the moments he conveniently seemed to forget.

i would bet money that you met dustnik's expectations. i have to say that while both characters had plenty of valid things to say, it seems clear to me that Barrow will continue to learn how human Carson is, that all his assumptions about the former butler need rethinking.

thanks for this. i enjoyed reading it so much.

I always admire how you get the voices of characters you severely dislike to sound so true and interplay with others just as they would really do if ANY of this were real! It is impressive to be able to stay so true to character. I am not sure I can do it for all of this DA lot the way you do. Heck!- I maintain that it is something the series faltered on quite severely with some of our favourites come S6. (Namely, Charles and Elsie as I have so often argued.)

Thomas at least has remained consistently ... unlikeable?... certainly as intractable as Carson. The men have more similarities than either of them would care to ever admit, I think, - even in this situation. Their dual commitment to service, and the highest quality service/style, and the loneliness of that life in leadership is their truest conection really. I think you always manage to get at that very tricky space with these two.

I like the fact that Carson, even through his innate dislike of Thomas, manages to give some tough fatherly advice (for he is the Downstairs Daddy to Robert's upstairs Daddy at heart -as JC and HB have described it in early interviews). I like how Carson confronts Thomas about never facing up to his faults in earlier years but being more concerned that he was never caught out. But Thomas still, as a grown man now, gets to defend the fact that Carson has not ever recognised that he HAS changed.

This isn't an all out Old Lion vs. Young Lion battle yet though, where Thomas is the inevetiable winner of the turf and takes all. There is still space for growth for both of them. In some ways, I think the sadness Carson feels for not being able to hand on his life's work in the way he would want- not in the fit state he would want it from Downton's Glory Days, even to Thomas, is where the sting really lies in here for Charles. And then, that all that Thomas has fought to rise up to and hold onto and find stabiltiy with by finally making it to the top job- is proving a disappointing realm to now be the master of. I feel for Poor Tom. Carson is surely the lucky one. Tom will never really have a true place in the family's heart, in society, or with another person- and now the job will not even fulfil him the way it once did Charles and that I think Thomas has always secretly admired and aspired to. Charles is certainly the happiest and luckiest of men in comparison- isn't he?

The finish, with Charles finally able to change again- to soften (ever so slightly) and compliment Thomas- that is big stuff for the big man- and yet still so totally in tune with his ultimately giving and caring and kind nature. Our favourite is surely a man who has had great opportunities to know his true self through all his life's work and relationships with the people around him. Not many of us can boast such self-actualisation in a lifetime. And sadly, Thomas probably never will.

This is great stuff- as always. Well done. And many thanks.

Regards,

BorneToFlow

Thank you for this introspective study into their relationship, strained that it is. Now that they're not together on a daily basis, it might be a little easier to always find fault.

Well, this was pretty awesome. Trying to imagine Carson and Thomas sitting back to back with each other is quite a picture. I was rather amazed at the honesty of questions and answers the two had for each other. I thought it was rather nice that Thomas was showing concern for Carson by finding him a place to sit and a way to keep him warm. A very good read. Thank you!

Aww, I loved it. I noticed you included a lot of our sticking points from previous discussions; you articulating Carson's side but also my defense of Thomas. So how do I begin to comment? I could feel Thomas' panic when he realized he was trapped in the cellar with the ex-butler, and it was probably the same for Carson. They've found a way to deal with each other professionally, but had never developed a personal relationship of any kind in all their years working together. It was nice to see Thomas' concern for the older man's comfort, finding makeshift seats and using body heat to keep him warm. I think their back-to-back position made it easier for them to open up to each other. Imagine Carson bringing up Barrow's war service and asking about his love life, of all things! The wine loosened their inhibitions enough that they could finally get to the bottom of their uncomfortable relationship. Carson holds Thomas' earlier sins against him while Thomas still feels the sting of his rejection, real or perceived. I don't think it was that Thomas disliked Carson. I don't ever remember him saying anything bad to or about the butler in six seasons on the show, and we know he was more than capable of that. I think he was simply hurt that Carson seemed to favor the others over him. He desperately wanted the approval of an older male figure, presumably not finding it in his father, but he didn't get it from Carson either. You showed that effectively. It's true that Carson never encouraged Thomas or ever gave him a kind word which Thomas called him on here. I think that would have made all the difference to Thomas when he was younger, making him a better employee and possibly a better man. It was a wonderful study of the two men's complicated relationship. Thank you for this. You're a doll!

Lovely! Barrows mixed feelings for mr Carson is interesting. Carsons feelings has their reasons, Barrows really don't, except a bit of unreasonable continuing revolt against a stand in parent.